“Todos los medios de comunicación son militantes y deberían reconocerlo”

1923

Entrevista con Ancízar Narváez. El académico y analista de medios, entre otras cosas, explica por qué los grandes medios de comunicación no hicieron suficiente ilustración y propaganda por la consulta anticorrupción y por qué su posición contra Gustavo Petro en la campaña presidencial. También hace un llamado al fortalecimiento de la prensa alternativa

Juan Carlos Hurtado Fonseca
@Aurelianolatino

Ancízar Narváez es licenciado en ciencias sociales, tiene una maestría en comunicación educativa y un doctorado en educación. Es investigador en temas de comunicación, educación y medios en concordancia con el capitalismo y las industrias culturales. Es docente universitario en facultades de educación y comunicación.

VOZ habló con él para conocer sus apreciaciones sobre los medios de comunicación en relación con los acontecimientos políticos recientes en el país.

–¿Le parece que el comportamiento de los grandes medios de comunicación con respecto a la campaña para la consulta anticorrupción fue el adecuado, al tratarse de un hecho de tanta importancia nacional?

–Lo que pasa es que los medios no pueden explicar la corrupción sino solamente señalar a quienes ellos consideran corruptos. La corrupción es un fenómeno inherente a las prácticas económicas precapitalistas, por lo tanto, es un producto del bajo desarrollo del capitalismo. Es la conjunción de tres poderes: El terrateniente o latifundista, el de las mafias y el narcotráfico, y el poder financiero. Es lógico que los medios no van a explicar eso, entonces empiezan a señalar a grupos o a personas, pero esos grupos o personas son los mismos que tienen el poder político, que pautan en los medios o que están en la Presidencia de la República. Esa prensa no se va a poner en esa denuncia.

Hablaron todo el tiempo de algo que era como una elección y eso no había. Había una votación por una idea y fue una votación en ausencia de las dádivas de los políticos en elecciones. Por consiguiente, es muy importante el resultado que se dio porque se votaba contra del Establecimiento, y los medios no van a estar en contra del Establecimiento del que hacen parte al pertenecer a los grupos económicos que detentan el poder, ponen el gobierno, y es este el que da las concesiones del espectro electromagnético.

Los periodistas, mientras hablaban de la consulta, subrepticiamente para desprestigiarla filtraban los mensajes mentirosos de los opositores a la misma, los mensajes de la derecha, de los representantes de esos tres poderes que mencioné.

Los medios tienden a depender de estos sectores, por eso se la pasan colgados del Twitter de Álvaro Uribe. Eso es una gran deformación de la estructura oligopólica de los medios en Colombia.

–Entonces, ¿no se puede hablar de los medios de comunicación como algo independiente, como lo intentan hacer creer?

–Los medios como unidad no existen. No existe algo en la sociedad que se llame los medios como si fueran independientes de instituciones o sectores sociales. Mi idea es que existen diferentes sectores sociales e instituciones que tienen medios y otras que no los tienen. Además, entre quienes tienen, hay unas que cuentan con mayor poder que otros. Obviamente con los procesos de privatización que han surgido en América Latina desde los años 90, el sector de mayor presencia mediática es el capital; antes lo tenía el Estado; y comunidades, organizaciones sociales y sindicatos no tienen la capacidad de competir mediáticamente.

Ni lo uno ni lo otro

–Con lo que me dice creo que se puede cuestionar lo que se decía a principios del siglo pasado con respecto a que los medios son el cuarto poder, ¿eso es algo mentiroso?

–Completamente. Esa es la versión liberal, que dice que existe el poder legislativo, judicial y ejecutivo y que los medios son el cuarto poder que vigila a los otros tres. Pero no es cierto, son ramas del mismo bloque dominante.

–Si no son el cuarto poder, tampoco son esas máquinas manipuladoras del pensamiento de las masas, como se dice desde otra orilla, ¿o sí?

–Esa pregunta tiene varias partes. Primero, los medios no son imparciales ni objetivos ni representan a la sociedad. Debemos tener claro que cada empresa o institución mediática representa a un sector social, económico o político. Entonces, debemos estar claros en que cada medio es un grupo de intereses y que cada medio es militante y engañan menos a la gente cuanto más clara se hace su militancia. No es que hayamos cambiado de la prensa ideológica del siglo diecinueve a la prensa informativa del siglo veinte del modelo norteamericano, y todo eso que dicen. Eso no es cierto. La prensa norteamericana de modelo informativo es porque respondía al crecimiento de los negocios en los Estados Unidos y no le interesaba enemistarse con ninguno de los sectores en conflicto por el control de los monopolios que nacían.

Entonces, a mi modo de ver no alcanzan a ser eso porque el problema no es lo que transmiten, sino el cómo lo hacen.

Ancízar Narváez.

–Habla de la imparcialidad y la objetividad, y ese es otro tema. En VOZ decimos abiertamente que no somos ninguna de las dos porque tomamos partido por quienes buscan las transformaciones sociales, tenemos una apuesta política y no la escondemos, pero uno ve que la gran prensa sí lo dice, sí las esconden…

–Ese es el punto. Creo que le leí a Raymond Williams el concepto de democracia radical y es que cada uno ponga de manifiesto sus verdaderos intereses. Y en ese sentido todos los medios son militantes y deberían reconocerlo. No es que El Espectador sea imparcial, no. Es militante en favor de la economía de mercado, más o menos de acuerdo o en desacuerdo con el neoliberalismo, pero está en el Establecimiento. Es un militante por eso que ellos consideran el modelo de sociedad conveniente.

Creo que fue a Ignacio Ramonet a quien hace pocos años le leí que la prensa militante estaba mandada a recoger. Entonces, ¿desde el punto de vista de la búsqueda de lo alternativo, qué pasa ahí?

–Hace poco tuve una discusión con unos colegas de la Asociación Latinoamericana de Investigadores en Comunicación. Unos decían que no les gustaba Telesur porque era muy parcializado. Yo les decía que era la otra cara de CNN en español. Lo que pasa es que CNN tiene más tecnología y recursos, pero es el vocero de toda la derecha y el capital especulativo, las mafias y lo peor que hay en América Latina. Y a Telesur no le interesa sino buscar las grietas de ese proyecto que defiende CNN como lo es el neoliberalismo, el extractivismo, el saqueo, etcétera; milita a diario contra los movimientos sociales, contra el movimiento campesino, contra las comunidades indígenas, contra la izquierda, contra las universidades públicas. Y Telesur busca las grietas para mostrar lo injusto de ese sistema.

Academia y medios

–A propósito de ese debate que tuviste, veo que la academia en el tema de periodismo muchas veces está alejada de la realidad. Se ven profesores de periodismo que no han hecho ni hacen periodismo y desde los libros lo enseñan. Muchos egresados sueñan trabajando en esos grandes medios del Establecimiento, entonces ¿cómo se aporta desde la academia a esa transformación?

–Tiene razón en la descripción de la situación, porque si la academia fuera una fotocopia de la realidad ¿para qué academia?

Entonces, ¿no podemos creer que la academia debe ayudar a resolver problemas de la sociedad?

–Ese es otro debate ya que esa es una frase engañosa y populista porque, primero, la academia está para crear problemas no para resolverlos, es decir, para hacer preguntas. Porque entre otras cosas las respuestas las dan personas que no tiene que ver con la academia y que no están interesadas en resolver problemas de conocimiento.

Perdóneme la digresión, pero por ejemplo en el ámbito de la educación el Ministerio entrega un poco de contratos a un poco de gente que no tiene experiencia, que no sabe de educación ni de pedagogía, pero que son de la Universidad de los Andes y tienen nexos con la ministra, hacen negocios juntos, y ahí se gastan un montón de plata; y los profesores de los colegios y las universidades que trabajan en la investigación para solucionar asuntos pedagógicos, a esos los excluyen.

Entonces, podemos plantear preguntas desde la academia, pero las decisiones políticas las toman otros: los proyectos políticos. Y, ninguna academia puede alcanzar la realidad porque esta se mueve muy rápido, y porque se mueve en muchos sitios concretos a la vez, pero el aquí y el ahora del estudiante y el profesor es uno solo. Por consiguiente, si se quieren hacer transformaciones en la comunicación, hay que participar en proyectos políticos, gremiales y sociales.

En campaña

Luego de estas aclaraciones, ¿qué balance hace del papel de los medios en la pasada campaña política a la Presidencia de la República?

–Se comportaron de manera obvia. Es decir, el que tiene el mayor poder mediático en Colombia es el capital, son los grupos económicos. Por consiguiente, iban a hacer campaña por el proyecto que responde mejor a sus intereses. No podíamos esperar que los medios del capital le apostaran a un candidato o proyecto político que cuestiona el modelo económico que los tiene a ellos en la cumbre del poder y que favorece sus procesos de acumulación.

–Entonces, ¿qué hacer para contrarrestar eso?

–El problema es que los sectores sociales que luchan contra el Establecimiento no tienen medios con la misma audiencia que tienen los medios de los grupos económicos. Por ejemplo, el sistema de medios públicos, RTVC, funciona con 150 mil millones de pesos al año, y Caracol TV, con casi 800 mil millones. Si a eso se le suma los 500 mil de RCN TV, ya tienen un desbalance impresionante. Ante ellos qué puede hacer, por ejemplo, Fecode con un programa de televisión de media hora los domingos. El noticiero de Caracol cuando tiene bajo rating lo ven más o menos tres millones de personas.

Fuera de eso, RCTV no tiene dos alternativas que son las que mantienen la audiencia: El noticiero y los dramatizados, entonces no tienen cómo competir con los medios privados. Porque si se quiere hacer periodismo político, hay que hacer televisión. No es la ideología lo primero en los medios, sino la narrativa. Ellos saben narrar televisivamente, y los géneros televisivos son noticieros y dramatizados. Son buenos productos como narración televisiva. Entonces, tienen rating porque tienen sintonía con la forma de narrar y de leer de los espectadores.

Su lenguaje es narrativo, agonístico, es decir crean conflictos de mentiras. Nos tuvieron ocho años en que en el problema era entre el santismo y el uribismo, era la manera de mantener el interés atado a eso, mientras de fondo hay cosas que no se muestran.

Crear y competir

–Sobre el tema de la competencia de los medios alternativos con los grandes, creo que un medio alternativo no debe tener entre sus objetivos la competencia con esa “gran prensa”, sino crear nuevos mercados y públicos para ayudar en la construcción y reconstrucción de los tejidos sociales y nuevas redes de medios que permitan generar propuestas de cambio.

–Lo que usted dice es lo que entiendo como la resistencia, pero la alternativa –a mi modo de ver–, no es una sumatoria de resistencias, sino que tiene que haber un proyecto macro que pueda articular esas resistencias, primero políticas, luego mediáticas, organizativas.

El problema es que el noticiero de Caracol lo ven en todo el país, pero al existir medios alternativos locales y regionales, no hay competencia para esa que es la versión nacional, el proyecto nacional de ellos no tiene competencia.

–Pero no se tiene la articulación social ni la financiación para eso y se ve que por lo contrario, los grupos económicos cuentan con varios canales y estaciones radiales.

–Físicamente tener dos o tres infraestructuras independientes de radiodifusión no es rentable, sino que se hace por darle tajadas al capital. El Estado, con lo que tenía Telecom, con lo de ETB y con lo de EPM podría tener un monopolio. Y si las manejara el Estado tendría que dar espacios al capital en los medios; en términos políticos, espacios a la oposición; y en términos sociales a los sindicatos y los movimientos alternativos. Si no es con una forma de subsidio como esa no se puede tener medios alternativos.

–Hay medios regionales que posan de alternativos y están respondiendo a lógicas de poderes políticos y económicos locales, y muchas veces quieren parecerse a los grandes medios.

–Sí, muchos de los que se llaman medios comunitarios y son solo pequeñas empresas personales. Eso es funcional al sistema. La alternativa a un proyecto nacional no es un proyecto local.

–¿Por qué no puede haber proyectos comunicativos locales que apuesten a una visión ideológica diferente? 

–Sí, pero el problema es la cobertura de las esferas públicas. Esto es discutible, pero repito un proyecto político alternativo no es la sumatoria de pequeños proyectos políticos. Por lo contrario, los pequeños proyectos locales tienen sentido si tienen como horizonte un proyecto político que los articule. Y eso es así en política como en los medios.

–¿Qué pasa con el individuo consumidor de productos comunicativos, quien cuando se queja por la calidad de lo que recibe le responden que cambie de canal, como si fuera un simple consumidor y no un sujeto de derechos?

–Cuando a ese ciudadano le digan eso debe preguntar cuál es la alternativa, porque no la hay. Quienes le dicen eso esconden que eso no existe porque ellos son los únicos. Porque por ejemplo, ¿dónde encuentro una versión contraria en Colombia sobre la situación de Venezuela? O ¿qué pasa con Nicaragua? Solo hay que ver lo que los medios hicieron con la Alcaldía de Petro, fue algo infame.

Televisión Española compite con Antena 3 con igual alcance e igual audiencia, con noticieros y dramatizados todo el tiempo. La RAI hace noticias, dramatizados y transmite fútbol, si no le queda todo a Berlusconi. La BBC hace lo mismo. Entonces, algo así es alcanzable. Ahí surge la pregunta, ¿¡dónde están los medios alternativos en Colombia!?

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